Order out of chaos
A conversation with Abdulrahman Mustafa

Opposition areas in Syria fall under one of two jurisdictions: the Syrian Opposition Coalition’s Syrian Interim Government (SIG) that is based in Azaz, and Hayat Tahrir al-Sham’ Syrian Salvation Government (SSG) that is based in Idlib. To understand more about the challenges of governing northern Syria, and what plans exist to overcome them, Syria in Transition spoke with Abdulrahman Mustafa, Prime Minister of the Syrian Interim Government.    

There has been speculation recently about an expanded safe zone in northern Syria overseen by Turkey that could even include the city of Aleppo. Is this something you are aware of?
Mustafa: We are constantly discussing any issues related to political and military affairs with the Turkish side. An expanded safe zone that includes the city of Aleppo requires appropriate international support, including a common understanding on technical and political issues. Liberating areas from the control of the Assad regime or the SDF contributes to improving the lives of Syrians, but such efforts need to be part of serious engagement by the international community on advancing a political transition in Syria in accordance with international law and UNSCR 2254.

You mentioned that the Syrian Interim Government is working to consolidate governance in northern Syria. Can you give examples of success stories and major obstacles?
Mustafa: The obstacles are obviously manifold. The Assad regime and the SDF are continuously attempting to destabilise northern Syria through air strikes, shelling, ground infiltrations, and even car bombs that blow up in civilian areas. Our efforts to improve governance are limited by capacity which is a result of limited resources. That includes infrastructure. Northern Syria is a mostly rural area whose infrastructure has been largely destroyed by the war. This area is now home to nearly three million people. You can imagine how that stretches our resources. 

Contributing to the destabilisation are well-connected criminals who are involved in all kinds of malign activities, including the trafficking of drugs from regime and SDF areas. Our judicial institutions and the civil and military police have made great progress in professionalisation to confront these threats. Our efforts to strengthen the rule of law include cooperation with human rights organisations such as the UN’s Commission of Inquiry. The institutional capacity we have gained over the past years has also allowed us to facilitate the return of properties that were seized by outlaws. 

Despite all the challenges, the Syrian Interim Government has achieved remarkable success in maintaining security and stability, with a particular focus on health, education, energy, agriculture, and investment. Economic development is high on our agenda, and what we see today is a dynamic and growing private sector that will make the liberated areas more self-sustaining, and that will support the economic recovery of all of Syria in the future. 

Would you describe the Syrian Interim Government as simply a local governance actor, or do you see it actively engaged in diplomacy to promote the implementation of UNSCR 2254?
Mustafa: The Syrian Interim Government is proud of its presence on the ground, and our aspiration is to represent all Syrians who call for freedom and dignity — wherever they are. This is admittedly an ambitious aspiration given the diversity of Syrian society and that Syrians have been scattered throughout the world. This is why we, in addition to local governance, participate in national, regional and international efforts to advance a political solution in Syria that will allow free and fair elections.

Factional rivalries within the SNA remain a problem and have enabled HTS to advance into SIG-controlled areas. The SIG has been promising for years to reform the SNA and create a unified command that would eliminate factionalism. Why has this been so difficult to achieve?
Mustafa: Through our Ministry of Defence, we have been indeed working for years to restructure and integrate the factions into a unified military institution. I want to emphasise that one cannot see the issue of military professionalism detached from overall governance capacity and the political situation of the country. This means that progress can only be gradual and in parallel to the development of other fields such as the judiciary and the economy, and that any consolidation efforts are challenging in times of war that is unfortunately imposed on us.

Nevertheless, with the Military College, the Military Court, and Military and Civilian Police, we have established and strengthened key institutions to increase accountability and deter violations from perpetrators within the SNA. We have also signed an agreement with the UN to prevent the use and recruitment of children. There is no doubt that challenges remain, but there should also be no doubt that we are committed to overcome them.

One of the main criticisms of the Syrian Interim Government is that it has limited powers, and many believe that Ankara makes the decisions. How do you respond?
Mustafa: The Turkish state has provided and continues to provide vital support to northern Syria ranging from security to institutions and infrastructure. With millions of Syrians being hosted by Turkey, and millions more having been displaced to the border areas, our two countries naturally grew closer together. We view the sisterly Turkish state as a partner in building the future of Syria, and we appreciate the coordination and cooperation with the Turkish side. At the same time, we maintain relations with various countries and we constantly call for expanding cooperation.

In 2019, the Europeans launched a project to support the governance of the Syrian Interim Government in the northwest. From what we know, the results were disappointing. Since then, no direct support from Europe has been received. What were the main issues facing the 2019 project?
Mustafa: The project indeed faced several major challenges. 2019 saw a peak in armed hostilities, especially in northern Syria, which complicated governance significantly. In addition to that, the Syrian Interim Government at that time relied almost entirely on partner organisations to implement the project without having an active and influential role. This was a structural hurdle that we have solved by now. Since the 2019 formation of the current cabinet, we have developed capacity to lead and implement projects in northern Syria in coordination with international partners. Part of that is increased accountability for which we have established a monitoring and liaison mechanism. 

It is thanks to these improvements that we are currently discussing with the European Union the activation of civil and service partnerships and the strengthening of programs that support human rights and governance, with a focus on the empowerment of women and the protection of children. Northern Syria has a lot of potential for development, and today we are seeing more and more results of our past years’ work. For example, we are proud of entirely new industrial zones that provide jobs, structural growth, and sustainable development that will help to reduce the dependence on foreign assistance. But we are not there yet, and while we are deeply grateful for the support provided by the EU and Arab and international partners, the decline in support since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the outbreak of armed conflict in other parts of the world concerns us.

US and European donors have taken a different approach to areas under the control of the Syrian Interim Government, such as Afrin and the Peace Spring area, which are considered off-limits for anything but the most essential humanitarian support. How do you feel about this, and have you tried to overcome this Western veto?
Mustafa: This issue is indeed polarised and unfortunately suffers from misinformation. The areas of Afrin, Ras al-Ain and Tal Abyad — the areas of Operation Olive Branch and the areas of Peace Spring — were under the control of the SDF militia, which works to impose the agenda of the PKK, which is for good reasons designated as a terrorist organisation in both Europe and the US. The track record of violence of the SDF against civilians, specifically the core group of the most ideologised PKK supporters, is significant and concerning. We monitor their violations and provide international bodies with periodic reporting. 

Since we regained the above mentioned territories, the SDF has been trying, through affiliated parties, to spread lies aimed at tarnishing the reputation of the SNA by wrongfully attributing violations to it to gain international sympathy for its cause. Unfortunately, there are some that have taken a negative stance based on those false reports and have subsequently cut off support to those areas. Over the last years, we have worked hard through the Ministry of Defence to enforce compliance with International Humanitarian Law. The primary mission of our Military Police, which has developed into a professional force, is to hold individual transgressors accountable and refer them to the judiciary. We affirm that we consider Arabs, Kurds, Turkmen, and Syriacs, and all other minorities as equal Syrians and we deal with everyone without any discrimination based on race, religion, or otherwise.

We also affirm our full readiness to cooperate with all relevant parties to enhance the rule of law and ensure the achievement of justice. Northern Syria has been subjected to the control of different groups in few years, including the regime, ISIS, and the SDF. The fighting has displaced millions of people, and every single story of displacement is one of injustice. We need to be careful to document everything to make sure that justice can be achieved based on transparency and facts, which is why we are in constant contact with the UN’s Commission of Inquiry and other human rights bodies. Issues of Housing, Land, and Property Rights are highly relevant and of major complexity given that half of the Syrian people have been displaced, often multiple times.